Knowledgebase

Quack Case (quackgrass) #846280

Asked August 18, 2023, 1:40 PM EDT

My new lawn, which was hydro seeded 4 yrs ago, took a really bad turn 2 yrs ago with an infestation of either tall fescue or quack(Elyria reopen.) I have read it will get chocked out. Since I had 0% 2 yrs ago and now it is up to 30-40% of my lawn, I don’t see how that is possible. I have areas very thick with grass and the quack is getting worse. I am spending many hrs trying to cut it out or apply a grass killer to areas but I can’t keep ahead of it. The broadleaf grass starts out as very narrow blue leaf grass and evolves into the monster. I am afraid it could take over my whole lawn in a couple of years. I fertilize 3x-4x per year. And water regularly. Usually 45-60 min in same spot. I read that utilizing Nitrogen every two wks for an extended period of time works. Has anyone had success with that technique?What quantity did you apply? For how long did you follow this regiment? Where is this grass coming from? I live in the country but do not see it in the adjacent fields. Are there any other suggestions? Thanks!

Leelanau County Michigan

Expert Response

Hello Steve,

First, without a picture of your weedy grass invader, it is not possible to positively identify it and therefore we cannot offer any conclusive advice. If you would like to send pictures of the grass in your lawn (from a distance, close up of an isolated plant on a white background, and a close up of the blade/stem junction), we may be able to confirm the type of grass you have. See the image in the following page to see the detail that is necessary for identification: https://www.canr.msu.edu/ipm/diseases/quackgrass?language_id=#gallery

This is important because treatment of tall fescue and quack grass are considerably different.

But. let me assume you do have quack grass. Quack grass is a perennial weedy grass that spreads (extremely well) by underground rhizome growth. The underground rhizomes can travel several feet to result in another clump of quack grass. It is extremely difficult to control because of the underground rhizomes that spread a great distance and the smallest piece can re-stablish growth of a plant. Quack grass has large leaves and grows quickly to reach above the desirable grasses, absorb sun and gain strength. By fertilizing lightly and frequently you can stimulate the desirable grasses, boost their growth and help them compete better with the quack grass. The other aspect of this approach is very frequent mowing. You need to ensure that the quack grass does not reach above the desirable grasses and regain strength. If your grass is thick but the quack is not declining, you may not be mowing frequently enough. The specifics of this approach are detailed in the following article: https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/quackgrass_control_in_turf#:~:text=By%20increasing%20the%20vigor%20of,most%20part%2C%20make%20it%20disappear.

This article also details the control methods for physical removal and non-selective herbicide treatment. Unfortunately, in your case, non-selective herbicide treatment may mean a complete kill and re-hydroseed.

How did the quack grass get in your lawn? I would likely look to the soil preparation. If the area was a field that was tilled or scraped and leveled, the rhizomes might have been left in the soil after scraping or tilling. If topsoil was brought in, the rhizomes could have been in the topsoil if it was not properly screened. Right after hydroseeding you probably had a small percentage of quack grass that has been multiplying ever since.

You mention your watering. How long you water is related to how much (in inches) of water you apply to the lawn. Grass plants react to the amount of water, so it is important to know how many inches of water you are applying. This article explains how to perform the “tuna tin” test to determine how effective your watering regimen is: https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/how_much_water_does_your_lawn_irrigation_system_apply

Edward A. Replied August 20, 2023, 9:51 PM EDT
Thank you for your help.  I am very frustrated and spent literally 100+ hours trying to kill this off for 2 years.  I suspect the problem started with the soil the lawn landscaper used because it is only in the lawn that was hydroseeded.  I also developed some no-mow and little blue stem areas that are not showing signs.  GRRR!

Here are the pics.  In your opinion, what is the best way to eradicate the quack?  If I employ the nitrogen approach, should I do it for multiple years?  How long does it take to work?

Regarding the pics, I included a shot of what appears to be the early stages.  The grass has a dark blue color in the start.  Because the lawn was new,  up until this year I was not collecting the grass when cut.  Thinking the nutrients were good for the lawn.  I suspect the qseed heads from the grass were going back into the lawn.  Should I continue to collect grass during the seeding months?

I also included a pic of what appears to be ant hills.  I have them all over the yard.  The grass seems to be worse in those areas.  Does that make a difference?  Should I do anything about that?

On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 9:51 PM Ask Extension <<personal data hidden>> wrote:
The Question Asker Replied August 21, 2023, 10:37 AM EDT
Thank you for your help.  I am very frustrated and spent literally 100+ hours trying to kill this off for 2 years.  I suspect the problem started with the soil the lawn landscaper used because it is only in the lawn that was hydroseeded.  I also developed some no-mow and little blue stem areas that are not showing signs.  GRRR!

Here are the pics.  In your opinion, what is the best way to eradicate the quack?  If I employ the nitrogen approach, should I do it for multiple years?  How long does it take to work?

Regarding the pics, I included a shot of what appears to be the early stages.  The grass has a dark blue color in the start.  Because the lawn was new,  up until this year I was not collecting the grass when cut.  Thinking the nutrients were good for the lawn.  I suspect the qack seed heads from the grass were going back into the lawn.  Should I continue to collect grass during the seeding months?

I also included a pic of what appears to be ant hills.  I have them all over the yard.  The grass seems to be worse in those areas.  Does that make a difference?  Should I do anything about that?

Thanks!

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 10:35 AM Steve Wegienek <<personal data hidden>> wrote:
Thank you for your help.  I am very frustrated and spent literally 100+ hours trying to kill this off for 2 years.  I suspect the problem started with the soil the lawn landscaper used because it is only in the lawn that was hydroseeded.  I also developed some no-mow and little blue stem areas that are not showing signs.  GRRR!

Here are the pics.  In your opinion, what is the best way to eradicate the quack?  If I employ the nitrogen approach, should I do it for multiple years?  How long does it take to work?

Regarding the pics, I included a shot of what appears to be the early stages.  The grass has a dark blue color in the start.  Because the lawn was new,  up until this year I was not collecting the grass when cut.  Thinking the nutrients were good for the lawn.  I suspect the qseed heads from the grass were going back into the lawn.  Should I continue to collect grass during the seeding months?

I also included a pic of what appears to be ant hills.  I have them all over the yard.  The grass seems to be worse in those areas.  Does that make a difference?  Should I do anything about that?

On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 9:51 PM Ask Extension <<personal data hidden>> wrote:
The Question Asker Replied August 21, 2023, 10:42 AM EDT
Sorry for the issues regarding my pics.  Let's try this again.  Here is the file attached.
On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 10:38 AM Steve Wegienek <<personal data hidden>> wrote:
Thank you for your help.  I am very frustrated and spent literally 100+ hours trying to kill this off for 2 years.  I suspect the problem started with the soil the lawn landscaper used because it is only in the lawn that was hydroseeded.  I also developed some no-mow and little blue stem areas that are not showing signs.  GRRR!

Here are the pics.  In your opinion, what is the best way to eradicate the quack?  If I employ the nitrogen approach, should I do it for multiple years?  How long does it take to work?

Regarding the pics, I included a shot of what appears to be the early stages.  The grass has a dark blue color in the start.  Because the lawn was new,  up until this year I was not collecting the grass when cut.  Thinking the nutrients were good for the lawn.  I suspect the qack seed heads from the grass were going back into the lawn.  Should I continue to collect grass during the seeding months?

I also included a pic of what appears to be ant hills.  I have them all over the yard.  The grass seems to be worse in those areas.  Does that make a difference?  Should I do anything about that?

Thanks!

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 10:35 AM Steve Wegienek <<personal data hidden>> wrote:
Thank you for your help.  I am very frustrated and spent literally 100+ hours trying to kill this off for 2 years.  I suspect the problem started with the soil the lawn landscaper used because it is only in the lawn that was hydroseeded.  I also developed some no-mow and little blue stem areas that are not showing signs.  GRRR!

Here are the pics.  In your opinion, what is the best way to eradicate the quack?  If I employ the nitrogen approach, should I do it for multiple years?  How long does it take to work?

Regarding the pics, I included a shot of what appears to be the early stages.  The grass has a dark blue color in the start.  Because the lawn was new,  up until this year I was not collecting the grass when cut.  Thinking the nutrients were good for the lawn.  I suspect the qseed heads from the grass were going back into the lawn.  Should I continue to collect grass during the seeding months?

I also included a pic of what appears to be ant hills.  I have them all over the yard.  The grass seems to be worse in those areas.  Does that make a difference?  Should I do anything about that?

On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 9:51 PM Ask Extension <<personal data hidden>> wrote:
The Question Asker Replied August 21, 2023, 11:11 AM EDT

Hello Steve,

I would try the least obtrusive method of remediation first – the nitrogen and frequent cut method. Provided, of course, that you can cut frequently and regularly. You need to commit to cutting the quack grass every time it starts to grow taller than the lawn grass. From the second reference in our first response:

Option 1: Management

Many folks have effectively "eliminated" quackgrass by masking its presence in the lawn. This is usually accomplished by increased nitrogen fertilization and increased mowing frequency. (Just what everyone wants, mowing more often!) This approach has been implemented with relative success by more than a handful of turf managers. The idea is that the quackgrass only has a competitive advantage when the desirable grass sits idly by. By increasing the vigor of your lawn you will choke the quackgrass, make it darker green and, for the most part, make it disappear.

The photos you shared are consistent with quack grass. Quack grass seed is viable. https://www.canr.msu.edu/weeds/extension/quackgrass

I would not mulch if the quack grass is showing any seed heads, but if you mow frequently and there are no seed heads showing, you should be safe to mulch. You are correct – mulching is a good cultural habit that increases the health of a lawn.

Ant nests and hills in the lawn are more unsightly than they are detrimental. It is difficult to say whether the ants are taking advantage of bare spots in a thin lawn or if the ants are creating thin spots in the lawn. It is more likely the former rather than the latter. Treatment to address the ant presence is not recommended.

Edward A. Replied August 25, 2023, 5:13 PM EDT
Thank you for your insight.  I have some follow up questions.  

If I am to apply nitrogen every 2 wks during the “growing season”.  (Next yr)
1) Which months are considered growing season months?
2) My landscaper said to cut grass 3-4”. Should I cut shorter?
3) Do I still apply regular fertilizer 4x per season in addition to the nitrogen? Should I use a low nitrogen higher phosphate/potash fertilizer to offset the heavy Nitrogen applications?
4) Do you recommend a liquid nitrogen over granular?

Sorry for such detail,  I have burned out my lawn with the wrong fertilizer applications in the past and want to do this correctly.

Thanks so much for your help!!!

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 25, 2023, at 5:13 PM, Ask Extension <<personal data hidden>> wrote:


The Question Asker Replied August 28, 2023, 9:14 AM EDT

Hello again, Steve,

Every season varies for lawn growth, but a general rule of thumb is if you need to cut your lawn, it is the growing season. This is typically mid April to late September.

3 to 4 inch mowing height is optimal for most turf grasses.

If you are going to apply light nitrogen every two weeks, you should not apply the “four times” fertilizer in addition. You should, however, perform a soil test to find out how much Potassium you should apply to your lawn. In Michigan it is illegal to apply Phosphorus to an established lawn. The numbers on the bag are Nitrogen – Phosphorus – Potassium. You should never apply a product to your lawn unless it has a 0 in the middle position. The soil test will tell you total nitrogen and potassium to add on a yearly basis. It will also measure your pH and organic matter and advise on how to modify those as well. Details on MSU soil testing can be found at: https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/soil-testing-returns-through-msu-extension

Granular nitrogen products tend to be slow release and are less likely to burn your lawn. I would recommend against a water soluble liquid fertilizer application.

One final comment. We can usually find several articles from reputable sources about a specific care regimen. This frequent low dose nitrogen and frequent cutting plan is only mentioned in a few articles, I hope you have success with it.

Edward A. Replied August 29, 2023, 10:04 PM EDT
Thank you so much for your help.  Have a very enjoyable fall! 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 29, 2023, at 10:04 PM, Ask Extension <<personal data hidden>> wrote:


The Question Asker Replied August 30, 2023, 9:08 AM EDT

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