Knowledgebase

How eradicate undesirable grasses from lawn #811950

Asked September 23, 2022, 12:41 PM EDT

Using a plant, identification application, I see I have orchard grass and Saint Augustine grass in my tall fescue mix seeded lawn. (See attached photos). Throughout the spring summer and autumn season, I dig out by the roots, these undesirable grasses and put down, desirable grass seed, tall fescue mix, but I see these grasses continue to reappear throughout the lawn. This lawn receives full sun, and is irrigated from May through October. I fertilize the lawn throughout the growing season. Questions:

1. Is there any better practice or systemic treatment that I could use that would eradicate these undesirable grasses?

2. I recognize the source of these undesirable grasses could be wind, borne seed, however, I do not see these grasses to the same extent in my neighbors yards who do nothing to care for their lawn.

Wayne County Michigan

Expert Response

Thomas, the plant in the photos is weedy tall fescue (Shedonorus arundinaceus). Grass ID is challenging. I have evaluated several plant ID apps over several years and they are not very accurate for grass ID. St. Augustine grass only grows in the southern U.S. Orchardgrass does grow here, but it is folded in the bud and has a distinguishable midvein. This grass is rolled in the bud and has no discernable midvein.

So with that in mind, I am wondering if your lawn is in fact a tall fescue mix, or just a fescue mix. The grasses surrounding this grass do not look like tall fescue, though there can be some differences between the weedy type and the breed lawn type. It looks more like fine fescue which would be much more common for Michigan lawns. Could you send a landscape photo showing your whole lawn? And a closeup of the desire turf?

Regardless, you are taking the appropriate measures for mechanical tall fescue control as it is a bunch-type perennial, so it doesn't produce rhizomes or stolons. Usually mechanical removal is sufficient so long as you get the bulk for the fibrous root. Are you using a name-brand or store-brand seed to reseed these holes or is it a bulk seed you purchased. It's possible there are contaminants in the seed, or if you bought tall fescue and the lawn is fine fescue then it's possible you're replanting the odd looking grass.

Let me know what you think about this and we can go from there.

Erin Hill, PhD Replied September 23, 2022, 3:36 PM EDT

Erin,

Referencing case number 0081880.

Thank you for your response. In reply to your request to see a larger section of my lawn, please see photograph below.

I over seeded the lawn in the 2020 and 2021 season with Scotts tall fescue mix. Five weeks ago I over seeded the entire front lawn (oddly I have never had a problem with the lawn in my back yard) with chewings fescue and seeddd more heavily on the areas where I had uprooted the undesirable grasses. I believe you can better see the result of that over seeding in the photograph below.

I purchased the chewings fescue from a specialty grass seed, company, “Rhino Seed” in Brighton, Michigan. I was referred to them by a family member who owns a landscaping business. In the photograph, the chewings fescue has a brighter green appearance.

I elected to use chewings fescue after observing one small area in my tree lawn that appeared to be 100% chewings fescue. I appreciated several of the qualities of this grass type, including that no other undesirable grasses grew among it. See following photograph.

Finally, I want to mention that in November last year, a person who has a lawn care, business suggested that to kill the existing undesirable grass in my lawn that I should purposely over, fertilize those patches of grass. I did do this. Four weeks after over fertilizing these patches, it killed that grass. the logic of this was to avoid the work of pulling out those individual patches of grass by hand, or and also that this approach would kill the area around the patch of the undesirable grass as well, assuring that no remnants of that grass remained. In March of this year, then seated with Scott’s tall fescue for the areas that have been killed by over fertilizing that seed came up successfully in these over fertilized areas.

Please advise your further recommendation for how I can more successfully eradicate the undesirable grass patches.

Thank you.

Tom Bucci

On Sep 23, 2022, at 3:36 PM, Ask Extension <<personal data hidden>> wrote:

Thomas, the plant in the photos is weedy tall fescue (Shedonorus arundinaceus). Grass ID is challenging. I have evaluated several plant ID apps over several years and they are not very accurate for grass ID. St. Augustine grass only grows in the southern U.S. Orchardgrass does grow here, but it is folded in the bud and has a distinguishable midvein. This grass is rolled in the bud and has no discernable midvein.

So with that in mind, I am wondering if your lawn is in fact a tall fescue mix, or just a fescue mix. The grasses surrounding this grass do not look like tall fescue, though there can be some differences between the weedy type and the breed lawn type. It looks more like fine fescue which would be much more common for Michigan lawns. Could you send a landscape photo showing your whole lawn? And a closeup of the desire turf?

Regardless, you are taking the appropriate measures for mechanical tall fescue control as it is a bunch-type perennial, so it doesn't produce rhizomes or stolons. Usually mechanical removal is sufficient so long as you get the bulk for the fibrous root. Are you using a name-brand or store-brand seed to reseed these holes or is it a bulk seed you purchased. It's possible there are contaminants in the seed, or if you bought tall fescue and the lawn is fine fescue then it's possible you're replanting the odd looking grass.

The Question Asker Replied October 05, 2022, 8:45 AM EDT

Erin,

Referencing case number 0081880.

Thank you for your response. In reply to your request to see a larger section of my lawn, please see photograph below.

Please advise your further recommendation for how I can more successfully eradicate the undesirable grass patches.

Thank you.

Tom Bucci

On Sep 23, 2022, at 3:36 PM, Ask Extension <<personal data hidden>> wrote:

Thomas, the plant in the photos is weedy tall fescue (Shedonorus arundinaceus). Grass ID is challenging. I have evaluated several plant ID apps over several years and they are not very accurate for grass ID. St. Augustine grass only grows in the southern U.S. Orchardgrass does grow here, but it is folded in the bud and has a distinguishable midvein. This grass is rolled in the bud and has no discernable midvein.

So with that in mind, I am wondering if your lawn is in fact a tall fescue mix, or just a fescue mix. The grasses surrounding this grass do not look like tall fescue, though there can be some differences between the weedy type and the breed lawn type. It looks more like fine fescue which would be much more common for Michigan lawns. Could you send a landscape photo showing your whole lawn? And a closeup of the desire turf?

Regardless, you are taking the appropriate measures for mechanical tall fescue control as it is a bunch-type perennial, so it doesn't produce rhizomes or stolons. Usually mechanical removal is sufficient so long as you get the bulk for the fibrous root. Are you using a name-brand or store-brand seed to reseed these holes or is it a bulk seed you purchased. It's possible there are contaminants in the seed, or if you bought tall fescue and the lawn is fine fescue then it's possible you're replanting the odd looking grass.

The Question Asker Replied October 05, 2022, 8:46 AM EDT

Tom, I think it might be good to discuss this over the phone. I just called and left you a message with my number<personal data hidden>) and availability today and for the rest of the week.

Erin Hill, PhD Replied October 05, 2022, 12:29 PM EDT

Erin,

Thank you.

Tom Bucci

On Oct 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, THOMAS BUCCI <<personal data hidden>> wrote:

Erin,

Referencing case number 0081880.

Thank you for your response. In reply to your request to see a larger section of my lawn, please see photograph below.

I over seeded the lawn in the 2020 and 2021 season with Scotts tall fescue mix. Five weeks ago I over seeded the entire front lawn (oddly I have never had a problem with the lawn in my back yard) with chewings fescue and seeddd more heavily on the areas where I had uprooted the undesirable grasses. I believe you can better see the result of that over seeding in the photograph below.
I purchased the chewings fescue from a specialty grass seed, company, “Rhino Seed” in Brighton, Michigan. I was referred to them by a family member who owns a landscaping business. In the photograph, the chewings fescue has a brighter green appearance.

I elected to use chewings fescue after observing one small area in my tree lawn that appeared to be 100% chewings fescue. I appreciated several of the qualities of this grass type, including that no other undesirable grasses grew among it. See following photograph.

Finally, I want to mention that in November last year, a person who has a lawn care, business suggested that to kill the existing undesirable grass in my lawn that I should purposely over, fertilize those patches of grass. I did do this. Four weeks after over fertilizing these patches, it killed that grass. the logic of this was to avoid the work of pulling out those individual patches of grass by hand, or and also that this approach would kill the area around the patch of the undesirable grass as well, assuring that no remnants of that grass remained. In March of this year, then seated with Scott’s tall fescue for the areas that have been killed by over fertilizing that seed came up successfully in these over fertilized areas.

Please advise your further recommendation for how I can more successfully eradicate the undesirable grass patches.

Thank you.

Tom Bucci
<personal data hidden>

On Sep 23, 2022, at 3:36 PM, Ask Extension <<personal data hidden>> wrote:

Thomas, the plant in the photos is weedy tall fescue (Shedonorus arundinaceus). Grass ID is challenging. I have evaluated several plant ID apps over several years and they are not very accurate for grass ID. St. Augustine grass only grows in the southern U.S. Orchardgrass does grow here, but it is folded in the bud and has a distinguishable midvein. This grass is rolled in the bud and has no discernable midvein.

So with that in mind, I am wondering if your lawn is in fact a tall fescue mix, or just a fescue mix. The grasses surrounding this grass do not look like tall fescue, though there can be some differences between the weedy type and the breed lawn type. It looks more like fine fescue which would be much more common for Michigan lawns. Could you send a landscape photo showing your whole lawn? And a closeup of the desire turf?

Regardless, you are taking the appropriate measures for mechanical tall fescue control as it is a bunch-type perennial, so it doesn't produce rhizomes or stolons. Usually mechanical removal is sufficient so long as you get the bulk for the fibrous root. Are you using a name-brand or store-brand seed to reseed these holes or is it a bulk seed you purchased. It's possible there are contaminants in the seed, or if you bought tall fescue and the lawn is fine fescue then it's possible you're replanting the odd looking grass.

The Question Asker Replied October 05, 2022, 1:05 PM EDT

Erin,

1. It was a pleasure speaking with you just now. Thank you very much for the investment of your time and expertise!

2. A colleague of mine, who lives near the campus of university of West Virginia, has a neighbor that cut down a large hedge at the border of their properties and revealed a well-established mass of poison ivy. She has been attempting to dig it out by the roots only to see it return in a matter of two or three weeks, based on our conversation of round up, I am thinking that there is not the same hazard that I previously imagined about the use of round up. I am aware that round up makes a product that is specifically designed to control poison ivy. Is that what you would recommend rather than attempting to dig up and dig up the poison ivy week by week?

Thank you.

Tom Bucci

On Oct 5, 2022, at 12:59 PM, THOMAS BUCCI <<personal data hidden>> wrote:

Erin,

Thank you.

Tom Bucci
<personal data hidden>

On Oct 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, THOMAS BUCCI <<personal data hidden>> wrote:

Erin,

Referencing case number 0081880.

Thank you for your response. In reply to your request to see a larger section of my lawn, please see photograph below.

I over seeded the lawn in the 2020 and 2021 season with Scotts tall fescue mix. Five weeks ago I over seeded the entire front lawn (oddly I have never had a problem with the lawn in my back yard) with chewings fescue and seeddd more heavily on the areas where I had uprooted the undesirable grasses. I believe you can better see the result of that over seeding in the photograph below.
I purchased the chewings fescue from a specialty grass seed, company, “Rhino Seed” in Brighton, Michigan. I was referred to them by a family member who owns a landscaping business. In the photograph, the chewings fescue has a brighter green appearance.

I elected to use chewings fescue after observing one small area in my tree lawn that appeared to be 100% chewings fescue. I appreciated several of the qualities of this grass type, including that no other undesirable grasses grew among it. See following photograph.

Finally, I want to mention that in November last year, a person who has a lawn care, business suggested that to kill the existing undesirable grass in my lawn that I should purposely over, fertilize those patches of grass. I did do this. Four weeks after over fertilizing these patches, it killed that grass. the logic of this was to avoid the work of pulling out those individual patches of grass by hand, or and also that this approach would kill the area around the patch of the undesirable grass as well, assuring that no remnants of that grass remained. In March of this year, then seated with Scott’s tall fescue for the areas that have been killed by over fertilizing that seed came up successfully in these over fertilized areas.

Please advise your further recommendation for how I can more successfully eradicate the undesirable grass patches.

Thank you.

Tom Bucci
<personal data hidden>

On Sep 23, 2022, at 3:36 PM, Ask Extension <<personal data hidden>> wrote:

Thomas, the plant in the photos is weedy tall fescue (Shedonorus arundinaceus). Grass ID is challenging. I have evaluated several plant ID apps over several years and they are not very accurate for grass ID. St. Augustine grass only grows in the southern U.S. Orchardgrass does grow here, but it is folded in the bud and has a distinguishable midvein. This grass is rolled in the bud and has no discernable midvein.

So with that in mind, I am wondering if your lawn is in fact a tall fescue mix, or just a fescue mix. The grasses surrounding this grass do not look like tall fescue, though there can be some differences between the weedy type and the breed lawn type. It looks more like fine fescue which would be much more common for Michigan lawns. Could you send a landscape photo showing your whole lawn? And a closeup of the desire turf?

Regardless, you are taking the appropriate measures for mechanical tall fescue control as it is a bunch-type perennial, so it doesn't produce rhizomes or stolons. Usually mechanical removal is sufficient so long as you get the bulk for the fibrous root. Are you using a name-brand or store-brand seed to reseed these holes or is it a bulk seed you purchased. It's possible there are contaminants in the seed, or if you bought tall fescue and the lawn is fine fescue then it's possible you're replanting the odd looking grass.

The Question Asker Replied October 05, 2022, 1:49 PM EDT

Erin,

Good morning! I recognize that you will be sending a further reply to me based on our conversation yesterday. I spoke with the person who provides the lawn mowing service to me about is the fact that clippings in the lawn mowers he uses can carry over from other lawns into my lawn and are one of the possible sources (in addition to contaminated seed, wind, bird droppings) for the creeping bent grass with the aerial crown. You identified the primary grass that I am trying to eliminate as weedy tall fescue. I recall that you said that the creeping bent grass can be carried over from other lawns into my lawn from residual clippings in a lawnmower. I want to clarify whether similarly weedy tall fescue can be carried between lawns from clippings.

Thank you.

Tom Bucci

On Oct 5, 2022, at 12:59 PM, THOMAS BUCCI <<personal data hidden>> wrote:

Erin,

Thank you.

Tom Bucci
<personal data hidden>

On Oct 5, 2022, at 8:42 AM, THOMAS BUCCI <<personal data hidden>> wrote:

Erin,

Referencing case number 0081880.

Thank you for your response. In reply to your request to see a larger section of my lawn, please see photograph below.

I over seeded the lawn in the 2020 and 2021 season with Scotts tall fescue mix. Five weeks ago I over seeded the entire front lawn (oddly I have never had a problem with the lawn in my back yard) with chewings fescue and seeddd more heavily on the areas where I had uprooted the undesirable grasses. I believe you can better see the result of that over seeding in the photograph below.
I purchased the chewings fescue from a specialty grass seed, company, “Rhino Seed” in Brighton, Michigan. I was referred to them by a family member who owns a landscaping business. In the photograph, the chewings fescue has a brighter green appearance.

I elected to use chewings fescue after observing one small area in my tree lawn that appeared to be 100% chewings fescue. I appreciated several of the qualities of this grass type, including that no other undesirable grasses grew among it. See following photograph.

Finally, I want to mention that in November last year, a person who has a lawn care, business suggested that to kill the existing undesirable grass in my lawn that I should purposely over, fertilize those patches of grass. I did do this. Four weeks after over fertilizing these patches, it killed that grass. the logic of this was to avoid the work of pulling out those individual patches of grass by hand, or and also that this approach would kill the area around the patch of the undesirable grass as well, assuring that no remnants of that grass remained. In March of this year, then seated with Scott’s tall fescue for the areas that have been killed by over fertilizing that seed came up successfully in these over fertilized areas.

Please advise your further recommendation for how I can more successfully eradicate the undesirable grass patches.

Thank you.

Tom Bucci
<personal data hidden>

On Sep 23, 2022, at 3:36 PM, Ask Extension <<personal data hidden>> wrote:

Thomas, the plant in the photos is weedy tall fescue (Shedonorus arundinaceus). Grass ID is challenging. I have evaluated several plant ID apps over several years and they are not very accurate for grass ID. St. Augustine grass only grows in the southern U.S. Orchardgrass does grow here, but it is folded in the bud and has a distinguishable midvein. This grass is rolled in the bud and has no discernable midvein.

So with that in mind, I am wondering if your lawn is in fact a tall fescue mix, or just a fescue mix. The grasses surrounding this grass do not look like tall fescue, though there can be some differences between the weedy type and the breed lawn type. It looks more like fine fescue which would be much more common for Michigan lawns. Could you send a landscape photo showing your whole lawn? And a closeup of the desire turf?

Regardless, you are taking the appropriate measures for mechanical tall fescue control as it is a bunch-type perennial, so it doesn't produce rhizomes or stolons. Usually mechanical removal is sufficient so long as you get the bulk for the fibrous root. Are you using a name-brand or store-brand seed to reseed these holes or is it a bulk seed you purchased. It's possible there are contaminants in the seed, or if you bought tall fescue and the lawn is fine fescue then it's possible you're replanting the odd looking grass.

The Question Asker Replied October 06, 2022, 9:47 AM EDT

How eradicate undesirable grasses from lawn #811950

Expert Response

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